Page 62

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Now I wish you would go on and describe Mr. McCarthy just how the party came and went along by you that night, just what he did and just what you saw.

A

I saw a man coming running along a pretty good gait, and he had his left hand like that, and I heard something jingling, rattling, I didn’t know what it was and his right hand hung by his side.

Q

Whether or not your noticed anything in the right hand?

A

I didn’t notice anything.  I looked at his head and shoulders because I thought if that man done the shooting we wanted to look out and I didn’t know - - I know he had to turn half way around or so if he done anything.

Q

Go on and describe how he went by.

A

Well he got right straight out from us he stopped and walked I should think about two or three steps, he didn’t notice us until he got right even with us and then he started on a trot again until he got up on the railroad track and as soon as he struck the track he stopped and turned around and then he started on down the D & M tracks.

Q

Down west?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Now could you distinguish what kind of clothes this man had on?

A

No, sir.

Q

Could you distinguish whether he had on a slouch hat or a derby hat or a cap?

A

Well it looked to me like a black soft hat, slouch hat.

Q

And now in regard to his coat, whether it was a long or short coat?

Page 63

A

Well it was a short overcoat, I should say come to about - - it didn’t come to his knees, just above his knees.

Q

A little ways above the knees?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And you say he had his left hand down on that?

A

He had his left hand that way.

Q

Could you tell whether he had anything in his left hand or not?

A

No, it looked to me as though it laid flat.

Q

Right against him?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Coat and all?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Now about how high a man, how tall a man would you say it was?

A

Why I should say it was about 5 feet 8 or 9.

Q

And could you determine from where you were whether he stood erect and was straight or not?

A

Well he didn’t stand erect.

Q

How did he stand?

A

Well he leaned a little, it looked as though he might have been a little bit round shouldered but I don’t know, I thought probably it was on account of making the grade up at the railroad there, he was making a little grade there, I didn’t know but what that was the cause of his leaning forward a little.

Q

You say that you attempted to fix as near as you could the looks of the man there I understood?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Now can you recognize that man again if you should see him?

A

No, sir, that is, I couldn’t tell anything about the looks of

Page 64

A

the man, that is, his looks.

Q

That is you mean by that, you could not tell from the looks of his face or anything like that?

A

No, sir.

Q

But you think he was about 5 foot 8?

A

Yes, sir, I should think he was about that.

Q

Did you ever see the respondent here, Bill Shimmel?

A

Yes, sir, I have.

Q

What could you say as to his height corresponding with the height of the man that you saw there?  That is in appearance I mean.

A

I don’t know.  If he would stand up I could tell more.

    MR. LILLIE:  I wish you would stand up Shimmel.

(The respondent here arose)

A

He seems to be about the height.

Q

About that height?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

What can you say as to whether the man that you saw there was about Shimmel’s heft and Shimmel’s build?

A

He was a good deal his build.

Q

And in your judgment about how heavy as near as you can form a judgment from the party that you saw there that night and seeing Shimmel here now?

A

Well by the looks of the man that passed me I thought that he would about 180 pounds, the way he looked.

Q

Well would you say that was heavier than Shimmel looks now?

A

I think it is.

Q

And that night this man had on an overcoat?

A

Yes, sir

Page 65

Q

Whether or not a person looks bigger with an overcoat on than they do without one?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Now after this man passed by what did you hear?

A

Why we heard Mrs. Golden come out on the porch and call Mart.

Q

Then what did you do?

A

I told Ed, I says we better get down there and we started.

Q

And went down?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Went down just as fast as you could?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And what did you find there?

A

We found him laying straight on his back with his head towards the walk.

Q

There is a sidewalk that runs from the road up to the main part of the house isn’t there and one that branches off from that that goes to the kitchen part?

A

It runs from the store, the main walk, yes, sir.

Q

Now on which side of that did you find Martin?

A

On the south side of the walk.

Q

And about how far from this walk?

A

Well his head laid right close to the walk, I don’t think it would be six inches from the walk.

Q

And was he then alive?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

What was the condition of him so far as wounds or anything?

A

Well it looked to me as though his brains was ozzing right out of the wound.

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Q

What did you do with him?

A

We carried him in the house.

Q

Now in the house did you notice this wound particularly?

A

Yes, sir.  Well we didn’t notice it much then because we went to use the phone.

Q

But right after that did you notice it, after you used the phone?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

What did you notice about the round wound, the circle of the wound?  Any color of any kind?

A

There was blood there.

Q

Anything else?  Anything else, any powder or anything like that?

A

No, I didn’t notice it.

Q

How long was it after you got Martin in the house before the physicians came?

A

I don’t know, that I couldn’t tell just exactly, it wasn’t a great while, I don’t suppose it was over a half an hour, it might be.

Q

And after the physicians came they took charge of him?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And about how long did Martin live?

A

I think it was a quarter to two that he died.

Q

The next morning?

A

Yes, sir