The People of the State of Michigan - - - (Complainants) VS William Shimmel - - - (Defendant) |
Thomas McCarthy Cross Examination |
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Page 72 |
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I understood you to say it was? |
A |
No, I didn’t say that. |
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How far did you say it was or would you say it was now? |
A |
From where the sound was? |
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No, to the store. |
A |
Well I should think it was about twenty rods. |
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Then about how far would it be to where the sound was as near as you can get at it? |
A |
It must be five or six rods further. |
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Further. |
A |
Yes, sir. |
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Is there a sidewalk there with loose boards in it? |
A |
There was at that time. |
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Then that would be about twenty-five or twenty-six rods away from you wouldn’t it? |
A |
I should think so. I never measured it but I should think it would be. |
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Did you ever go up there afterwards and examine that sidewalk to see about the planks being loose? |
A |
Well I saw them loose that morning, that night when I went up there I walked over it. |
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Are the planks laid on stringers? |
A |
I should think they are 2 by 6’s. |
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And the ends of the plank, that is as I understand it, the planks on the sidewalk were laid crossways of the stringers? |
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Yes, sir. |
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And were the stringers sunk in the ground or were they up above the ground? |
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Page 73 |
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A |
I think they are laid on some inch pieces or something on the ground, they was not bedded into the ground. |
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And about how high would be the plank on top of the sidewalk from the ground, the lower part of the plank? |
A |
I should think it would be six or seven inches. |
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You say you noticed this planking there in the morning and at night also? |
A |
Well the next morning after that happened, I didn’t see it the morning that the - - |
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(Interrupting) Did you notice it that night? |
A |
Yes, sir, I know the boards were loose on it, I know they had been loose before that. |
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But you did not look at it that night? |
A |
I did not look at it but we walked over it and the boards was loose. |
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Had you ever noticed them before? |
A |
Yes, sir. |
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And did you ever call anybody’s attention to it? |
A |
No, sir. |
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Now then after you heard this sound as if somebody was walking, which way from Denison store was that? |
A |
Where the planks were loose - - walking on the walk? |
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Yes, sir. |
A |
I didn’t hear nobody walking until that - - |
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(Interrupting) I know, but that is what I say, were the planks loose all along through the side walk there? |
A |
No, I guess not. |
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Just one place? |
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Page 74 |
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A |
There was quite a few of the boards loose through the walk. |
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Was there any particular place in the walk, that is with reference to where the door stood that they were loose. For instance the door is here. |
A |
There was a number of places that the boards were loose, some places there wasn’t a board in the walk at all. |
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Of course you would not swear that that was the plank in the side walk that made that noise? |
A |
No, sir. |
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How long was it after that that you heard the report of the revolver? |
A |
Why it didn’t seem to be two minutes, not after I heard the holler. |
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Well you heard the hollering first? |
A |
Yes, sir. |
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And some one said “here, here”? |
A |
Yes, sir. |
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Did you recognize the voice? |
A |
I did not exactly because my back was turned. |
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And then you heard the revolver go off? |
A |
Yes, sir. |
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Was your back towards the report at first? |
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Yes, sir. |
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And then you turned around? |
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Turned part way around. |
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And you saw the flash from the second report did you? |
A |
Yes, sir. |
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Now were you quite well acquainted with Mr. Golden in his life |
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Page 75 |
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time? |
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Yes, sir. |
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Did you ever know of his having a revolver? |
A |
Yes, sir, I saw him have one in the store a short time before that that he had just got. |
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Did you hear him shoot there occasionally himself? |
A |
He just shot there one evening after he got it, to try it, we got him to do it. |
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Did you ever hear any shots there in the village after dark? |
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Not only that one. |
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And about how long before this occurrence was it that you heard these shots fired by Mr. Golden himself? |
A |
Before the murder? |
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Yes, before he was killed. |
A |
Why it must be a couple of weeks I should think. |
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Now did you try that gun yourself? |
A |
No, sir. |
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You examined it, did you? |
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No, sir. |
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You saw it? |
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I saw it. |
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Do you know what kind of a gun it was? |
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I could not tell you the name of it. |
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What kind of a looking gun was it? |
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It was a revolver. |
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I know it was a revolver but how many chambers did it have in it if you know? |
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Page 76 |
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I don’t know, I couldn’t tell you. |
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Are you used to handling fire arms of that kind? |
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No sir, I never have. |
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You say that some of you fellows got Golden to try it that night? |
A |
Yes, sir. |
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Who was it, you? |
A |
No, I didn’t ask him to. I think Jake Knipe or George Carr, I don’t know which, there were four or five of us there that night and he tried it. |
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Had he said anything to you or in your presence about what he got this revolver for? |
A |
No, sir, I think he traded a bicycle or something for it. |
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Now then when you heard this shot go off there there was nothing particularly unusual about it, was there? |
A |
Why I don’t know, I kind of felt queer right off as soon as I heard the - - |
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(Interrupting) You felt queer but there was nothing as far as you knew at that time that would indicate that anybody had been shot? |
A |
Well when I heard the holler I knew that there was something wrong. |
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You heard the holler before the revolver went off? |
A |
Yes, sir, I did. |
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But there was nothing to indicate to your mind that anybody had been shot when that revolver was fired twice, was there? |
A |
Well I kind of felt that there was. |
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You felt that there was but there was nothing to indicate it? |