Page 77

A

No, I didn’t know that there was.

Q

Now when this man came running down the road you didn’t have any idea then that anybody had been shot did you?

A

Why no I didn’t.

Q

Then will you state why you testified on direct examination that you thought if this man had done the shooting you wanted to look out?

A

Well I will tell you, when I heard the holler I told my cousin, I says, “there is somebody has held Mart up and he has shot at him”.

Q

Held Mart up?

A

Martin Golden.

Q

What made you think it was Mart?

A

Well I knew that he - - I thought he was going home.  I know there was no light in the store.

Q

Did you ever make that statement to anybody else before?

A

Yes.

Q

Who did you state that to?

A

I told it at different times.

Q

Did you tell that you told your cousin at that time that you thought somebody had held Mart up?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

When did you first tell that?

A

I told him right there then.

Q

You told your cousin.

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Who else did you tell?

A

I don’t know.  I think I told some one there in the store that

Page 78

A

night after it happened.

Q

Now did you tell your cousin that before the man went by or afterwards?

A

It was before.

Q

Before he went by?

A

I says, there was somebody held Mart up and he has shot at him and when the fellow came running down the road I said, “there is the bugger, he is getting away” and that is the way it was, Added (and nothing further was said until he got by) explained on July 18 / 07

Q

But you fellows didn’t make any attempt to stop him?

A

No, sir.

Q

And he went within fifteen feet of you?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Why didn’t you?

A

It was not my place to I think.

Q

If a man had committed a crime of that kind and you knew about it or had an idea that he had wouldn’t you attempt to stop him before he was getting away?

A

I didn’t know that he did.

Q

I know, but you just stated that you told your cousin that somebody had held Mart up and shot at him.

A

No I said somebody had held Mart up and Mart had shot at him.

Q

And Mart has shot at him?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

What was the reason if you thought that Mart shot at him that you wanted to watch out for the fellow?

A

Well then it come to me right off, I says if that fellow done the shooting I says, we want to look out, that is the way I spoke.

Q

Now who did you tell besides your cousin about this man running

Page 79

Q

by you and the peculiarity of his wheezing as you told about and about the statement that you made to your cousin the night before, who did you tell - - did you tell anybody the next day about it?

A

I think I told the sheriff and deputy sheriff in the store there that night, I think I told the whole thing there that night just as I am telling it now.

Q

Did you have a conversation or do you know a man by the name of Joseph U. Smith, an officer in Grand Rapids, Michigan?

A

No, sir.

Q

A large man with black mustache?

A

No, sir, I don’t remember him.

Q

Did you see anybody there in Denison that night or the next day who claimed to be a man by the name of Smith?

A

I might have seen him but I didn’t know his name or didn’t know who he was.

Q

Do you know a man by the name of Mr. Shea?

A

No, sir.

Q

You could not recall such a man to your knowledge?

A

No, I never knew him that I know of.

Q

I will ask you this question just for the purpose of getting it on the record.  Do you remember having any talk with Joseph Smith, an officer from Grand Rapids, in relation to what you saw there that night, the next day or that night?

A

I don’t think I have.  I would not know Joseph Smith if I me him in the road.  I do not know his name and would not know him if I would see him.

Q

You don’t know Mr. Shea there do you?

Page 80

A

No, sir, not as I know of.

Q

Did you talk with anybody the next day that you didn’t know about this transaction?

A

No, I did not.

Q

Now you talked with this deputy here?

A

Well it was the night before.  I did not talk to them personally, just told it as I am telling now.

Q

Was this the gentleman sitting over here?

A

Yes, sir, I think it is.

Q

And you told him the exact story that you have told me, did you?

A

Well I didn’t tell him personally, I told different ones there in the store, told just what I thought about it.

Q

Didn’t the deputy sheriff ask you about it, didn’t he want you to tell the whole story to him?

A

No, I don’t think he did.

Q

He didn’t?

A

No, I don’t think he did.

Q

Now they held an inquest didn’t they?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Were you called as a witness at the inquest?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And did you testify to what you have told me on the inquest?

A

I think I did as close as I can tell it.

Q

Did you tell there before the coroner that you turned around and told your cousin that Mart had fired at this fellow, some fellow had tried to hold him up and Mart had fired at him?

A

Yes, sir, just as I am telling here.

Q

I say, did you tell that before the coroner?

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A

I ‘aint sure but I think I did, I ‘aint sure of it.

Q

Did you tell also that you told your cousin that if that was this fellow that did the shooting you wanted to look out, did you tell that before the coroner too?

A

I am not positive

Q

About how long after the shooting was the coroner’s inquest held?

A

I think it was a week after about that.

Q

Now during that week how many people did you tell about this transaction that you can remember - - did you tell everybody that you knew there in Denison, that is that met you and talked with you?

A

We didn’t talk it over any more than we did that night, just the same.

Q

Now after you had heard the shooting and after this fellow had gone by you say he went within fifteen feet of you?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And you say if he had any overcoat on at all it was a short overcoat?

A

Yes, sir, come down to about here I should judge.

(witness indicating)

Q

Not quite to his knees?

A

Not quite to his knees.

Q

Was he running at a pretty good gait?

A

Not very fast, just shacking along, a nice gait.

Q

Which way was he going?

A

Well he was going about northwest, as the state road runs.

Q

Do you know whether anybody else saw him besides you and your