The People of the State of Michigan - - - (Complainants)

VS

William Shimmel - - - (Defendant)

Thomas McCarthy

           Cross Examination

Home        Previous        Next

 

Page 87

 

 

Q

and having charge of it at different times for him?

A

I don’t know, he might while I was not there I can’t say.

 

 

Q

How long have you lived there.

A

41 years.

 

 

Q

And how long has your cousin lived there?

A

He has lived there ever since he was born.

 

 

Q

And you don’t know of his ever having anything to do for Mr. Golden of your own knowledge?

A

No, sir, I don’t for I ‘aint around there a great deal.

 

 

Q

How long has Mr. Golden run this store?

A

I can’t tell exactly, I guess probably two years.

 

 

Q

What did he do before that?

A

He used to teach school and run a threshing machine in the fall before school.

 

 

Q

He lived right there in the same place?

A

No, sir, he lived at Coopersville before he moved down there.

 

 

Q

Are you a married man?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Got a family?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

How much of a family?

A

I say I haven’t.

 

 

Q

You haven’t any family.  You are married though are you?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And is your cousin married?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

He lives with his folks?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

 

Page 88

 

 

Q

Now during the two years that Golden was there the store used to be a kind of a rendezvous for you fellows to meet in the evening I suppose and talk over matters?

A

We would go there for our mail and sit there and talk about one thing and another.

 

 

Q

And then go back home?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And you were pretty well acquainted with Golden?

A

Yes, sir, pretty well acquainted with him.

 

 

Q

And you met his wife occasionally I suppose?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And you used to go to school with her did you?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And were personally acquainted with her practically all your life?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

What was her name, Minnie what before she was married?

A

FitzPatrick.

 

 

Q

My brother informs me that she lived in the next house west of you on the same road?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And lived there for a great many years?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Now then how long after he died was it that the funeral occurred?

A

Four days.

 

 

Q

That would be on Thursday would it?

A

Friday I think.

 

 

Q

He died Monday night - - Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday?

 

 

 

Page 89

 

 

A

I think so.

 

 

Q

What time on Friday do your remember?

A

I think it was ten o’clock.

 

 

Q

Don’t you know what time it was?

A

(No response)

 

 

Q

Who conducted the funeral services, what father was it - - it was under the Roman religion, wasn’t it?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Do you remember what father conducted the services, the funeral services?

A

(No response)

 

 

Q

Don’t you know?

A

I ‘aint sure, I think it was Father Malone.

 

 

Q

You know Father Malone do you?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Did you see him there that morning at the funeral?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

You did?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And you saw him conduct the services, did you?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Now how long did the services last can you tell?

A

Probably about an hour.

 

 

Q

And you were there present at the services?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Was your cousin there?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Was it in the church or at the house?

 

 

 

Page 90

 

 

A

At the church.

 

 

Q

There is a church situated there in Denison with reference to this store?

A

It is about three quarters of a mile west or northwest of the store.

 

 

Q

Three quarters of a mile west?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Is that down by your place?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

West of you?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Quite a large funeral wasn’t it?

A

Yes, sir, it was.

 

 

Q

And you were present at the services and so was your cousin?

A

I think he was.

 

 

Q

Don’t you know?

A

I ‘aint positive now.

 

 

Q

But you are positive that you were there?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And you think it was Father Malone do you?

A

I think it was, I know he was there and I think it was him.

 

 

Q

Did you see Father Moss there?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

How do you know that it was not him that conducted the service?

A

I know it wasn’t him.

 

 

Q

You know it was not?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

 

Page 91

 

 

Q

Now after the night of the shooting what time did you go home in the morning?

A

Well I think it was about five o’clock, between half past four and five I think.

 

 

Q

About between four and five o’clock?

A

Between half past four and five, around there.

 

 

Q

And Mrs. Golden, had she gone to bed?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

She stayed up all night did she?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And did you try to quiet her during the evening?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

Or did some of the women folks?

A

The women folks.

 

 

Q

What time the next day did you go back to the Golden house?

A

To the store?

 

 

Q

To the Golden house.

A

Why I think it was along about two o’clock.

 

 

Q

In the afternoon?

A

After dinner, I think it was along abut that time.

 

 

Q

And did you help lay him out?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

Who did?

A

I don’t know.

 

 

Q

Was there an undertaker there?

A

I think there was.

 

 

Q

Where did he come from do you know?

A

He come from Coopersville.