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By motion of C C Coburn this testimony was stricken out.

Daniel C. Wachs

Justice of the Peace

E D W A R D   M C  C A R T H Y, having been produced as a witness for and in behalf of the people and having first been duly sworn, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COBURN.

Q

Where do you live?

A

Denison, Michigan.

Q

Well how long have you lived there?

A

Well I was born and raised there and moved to Grand Rapids, there was an interval there of about ten or eleven years that I lived in Grand Rapids.  I have lived there this last time pretty near eleven years.

Q

Did you know Martin Golden?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Do you remember the night of his murder?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Where were you that night?

A

I was in the store in the early part of the evening and left there and walked up in front of our house.

Q

What time did you go to the store that night if you remember?

A

I couldn’t say exactly what time, as near as I can remember about seven o’clock.

Q

Who was in the store at the time?

A

There was George Carr and Jake Knipes, Mike Malone and Bristol Wilton, and Bristol Wilton’s wife, and Tom McCarthy and Alice

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A

Kooney and Laura Michael.

Q

Golden was there all the time wasn’t he?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

About what time did you leave the store?

A

Well I think we left the store about twenty minutes after eight.  Tom looked at his watch there in the store and made some remark about the time and I think it was eight o’clock or a little after and we stayed there a few minutes.

Q

Did you see the clock there in the store?

A

Yes, sir, a big clock.

Q

Did you look at the time on that clock?

A

Yes, sir.  Generally I looked at the time before I went home.

Q

What time was it on that clock?

A

It was about ten minutes after eight, when I looked at the clock and we stayed there a short time probably six or eight minutes.  I wouldn’t say just how long but we stayed there a short time talking at the counter before we went home.

Q

You say Tom McCarthy went with you?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Where did you go?

A

We went up in front of our house and sat on the milk stand there.

Q

How long did you sit there on the milk stand?

A

Well I would say between twenty and thirty minutes.  There wasn’t any time spoken of while we sat there but that is to the best of my recollection between twenty and thirty.

Q

Did you hear anything unusual in that time?

A

Well no not until after Martin locked up the store and had gone home, started home.

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Q

What did you hear, just explain what you heard.

A

Well we heard a slight noise just as though somebody had stumbled on the side walk or else somebody had struck it with a club, and Mart says, “here, here” and there was two shots fired right in succession.

Q

And then what did you do?

A

Well we stayed there on the stand.

Q

Did you have any conversation with Tom McCarthy about the shooting?

A

Tom said, “what in the devil is that”?  I said “I don’t know what it is.”

Q

Anything further said?

A

I think Tom said that he believed Mart had shot at somebody.

Q

He believed that he had shot at somebody, did he say for what reason?

A

He said that he thought that somebody had held him up and Mart had shot at him.  I don’t know now that he said he held him up but he said he thought Mart had shot at him, and I think to the best of my memory that Tom did say that, that he thought somebody had held Mart up and Mart had shot at him.

Q

Did you notice anything shortly after that or see anything after that?

A

Yes, sir, in about a minute after that we heard a noise, I thought it sounded like a man on horse back with stirrups or something and then when I heard what I thought was a horse was coming - - a loud breathing - - and pretty soon a man went by.

Q

You say a lot of breathing?

A

Loud breathing.

Q

Was there anything unusual about that?

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A

Well it was distinct, we could hear the breathing before the man came in sight.

Q

About how far was the man from you when you first saw him?

A

Well probably twenty or twenty-five feet.

Q

Did you have any conversation with Tom McCarthy when you first saw him or shortly after that?

A

When I first saw the man?

Q

Yes, sir.

A

I don’t remember now just exactly.

Q

You say that the man passed by you?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

How far from you was he when he passed by?

A

Fifteen feet.

Q

Could you discern the general outline of the man or see the man?

A

Well yes in a way.

Q

Describe him if you can?

A

Well I have said before that the man was 5 feet 8 or 10 inches high, a man who would weigh about 175 or 180 pounds.

Q

Did you notice what kind of clothes he wore?

A

I thought that he had on a hat, a kind of slouch hat and a coat that I didn’t think at the time was an overcoat.  I think the coat came down pretty well to his knees.

Q

Did you notice him carrying anything?

A

Why after he had gone by I says to Tom that man had a gun in his hand.

Q

Did you notice anything peculiar about his hands?

A

His hands?

Q

Yes, sir, how did he carry his hands?

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A

Well I thought he had one hand on his pocket or else right down by his side, his left hand.

Q

How was his right hand?

A

His right hand was by his side and I thought there was a gun in it, there was something there that kind of glistened.

Q

Did this man see you?

A

Yes, sir, I think he did.  After he stopped running there when he got at a kind of an angle, he kind of glanced around over - - just kind of give a glance.

Q

What became of him?

A

He went on.  He stubbed his toe there on the plank of the railroad.  He went down the railroad as far as I could see, I couldn’t see so very far.

Q

When he went past you did he seem to be walking fast or did he slack up?

A

When he got pretty near opposite us when he stopped running he was walking, he walked maybe seven or eight steps, maybe ten when he passed us.

Q

Did he run after that?

A

Yes, sir, he started to run again when he struck the railroad track.

Q

How about this breathing, describe that.

A

Well I told the sheriff the next morning it sounded something like a heavy (heevy) horse, the breathing was loud, we heard the breathing we heard the man breathing before he come to us.

Q

There was something unusual about it?

A

Well yes sir, there was in a way.

Q

How far was it to the store from where you were sitting?