The People of the State of Michigan - - - (Complainants)

VS

William Shimmel - - - (Defendant)

Edward McCarthy

           Cross Examination

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Page 129

 

 

Q

Now then when was the funeral held, Friday?

A

I think it was, I wouldn’t be sure as to what day, only they held it in two or three days.

 

 

Q

Do you know who held the Mass there, who read Mass?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Who?

A

Father Moss.

 

 

Q

Father Moss?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

It was not Father Malone?

A

No, sir, I think it was Father Moss, I wasn’t in the church, the church was so full I couldn’t get in, I know Father Moss preached the sermon.

 

 

Q

And you didn’t get in the church?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

Was Tom in the church?

A

I ‘aint sure whether he was or not, I think he was.

 

 

Q

Did you see Tom out there on the outside when you were out there?

A

No, sir, I was not talking to him.

 

 

Q

Well did you see him?

A

No, I don’t remember of seeing him.

 

 

Q

And is the burying ground right near the church?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

How far from the church?

A

Nine miles.

 

 

Q

Did you go to the burying ground?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

Did Tom go to the burying ground?

 

 

 

Page 130

 

 

A

Yes, sir, I think he did.

 

 

Q

Now after the night of the shooting you went home about twelve o’clock did you - - or three o’clock?

A

About three o’clock.

 

 

Q

And what time did you go over to the Golden premises the next day?

A

Well I got up early, I got up about five o’clock, done what chores there was and went right over.

 

 

Q

Did you see Dr. Smith there?

A

The next day?

 

 

Q

Yes, or that night?

A

Yes, sir, I seen him there that night.

 

 

Q

Did you have any talk with him?

A

No, not individually.  We were all talking.  He sat there in the store talking.

 

 

Q

Did either one of the deputies ask you why you didn’t attempt to stop this man?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

They didn’t ask you that?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

Did anybody ask you to go and hunt that man up?

A

Yes, sir, Ed Brown asked me to go out with him the next morning.

 

 

Q

Did you do it?

A

I offered to, yes, sir.

 

 

Q

But you didn’t carry that out I suppose?

A

I carried out my part just as long as I could.

 

 

Q

Did it rain that night of the 23rd day of April?

A

I don’t think it did.

 

 

 

Page 131

 

 

Q

Was the road in such condition that you could see tracks there?

A

I couldn’t see any tracks the next morning.  You see there was people coming there all that night until twelve o’clock.

 

 

Q

Did you go down the road or anywhere and try to find any tracks?

A

Yes, sir, me and Mr. Woodbury went down the railroad.

 

 

Q

Did you find any?

A

We found one track, yes, sir.

 

 

Q

What did that look like?

A

Well it was quite a big broad track.

 

 

Q

Did you measure it?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

Did Mr. Woodbury?

A

I don’t think he did.

 

 

Q

Was that about in the direction this man ran?

A

Yes, sir, as near as I could describe.

 

 

Q

Just found the track of one shoe?

A

Oh no, there was a track down the railroad there.

 

 

Q

Was that along side of the track where you saw that?

A

No, I think it was just inside of the rail.

 

 

Q

How many times did you see Mrs. Golden and talk to her after that evening?

A

Quite a number of times.

 

 

Q

Quite a number of times?

A

Yes, sir, most every night, she ran the store there for short time.

 

 

Q

Did you ever do any work for Martin Golden yourself?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

What did you do for me?

 

 

 

Page 132

 

 

A

I milked a cow and put out the switch lights a couple of times.

 

 

Q

Did you ever attend the store for him?

A

I never tended the store, I have been in the store there alone several times.

 

 

Q

You tended store then for him didn’t you?

A

I never tended what you would call the store, he has left me in the store several times and went out different places.

 

 

Q

How many different times do you think he has ever left you there in the store

A

Well he used to leave me there quite often and go and do little things outside. He left me there a couple of times and went to put his switch lights out.

 

 

Q

Did he ever leave you there in the store, alone in the store for some little time?

A

Oh he left me there while he went and put the switch lights out, that would take him maybe fifteen or twenty minutes.

 

 

Q

Did you ever wait on any customers during that time?

A

No, sir, if there was any customers I would go and call his wife, he never told me to wait on customers.

 

 

Q

While you were there looking after the store did Tom come in occasionally?

A

He never come in there while I was there alone.

 

 

Q

Did you ever tell him that you looked after the store sometimes?

A

I didn’t have that privilege of looking after the store.

 

 

Q

I don’t mean that, but you watched it while he went out and put out switch lights?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

 

Page 133

 

 

Q

Do you know what ever became of the revolver that Martin Golden had?

A

For a couple of weeks afterwards his brother-in-law had it I think - - William FitzPatrick.

 

 

Q

Where does he live - - right west of you?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Do you know whether he has got it now or not?

A

No, sir I don’t know.

 

 

Q

Did you ever hear him say to whom he delivered it?

A

I never asked him.

 

 

Q

Can you describe that revolver that he had?

A

Why I could describe it in a way.

 

 

Q

Just describe it as near as you can.

A

I have never seen the revolver, I have never had the revolver in my hand but just seen it in Marts and in the show case, he kept it in the show case there unloaded.

 

 

Q

Describe it as near as you can.

A

It was a fair sized revolver, I won’t say what caliber, I never inspected it, and bright steel, I think a leather handle.

 

 

Q

A leather handle?

A

A rubber handle I guess.

 

 

Q

And silver mounted was it?

A

No, I think it was nickel mounted.

 

 

Q

Then you don’t know how many chambers?

A

No, sir, I don’t.

 

 

Q

About how long was it?

A

Well it was fair size, I should say maybe that long.  (witness indicating)

 

 

 

Page 134

 

 

Q

About six or eight inches?

A

Yes, sir, possibly, I don’t think it was eight inches long, maybe six inches long.

 

 

Q

Was it one of these hammers sunk into the barrel so that it was hammerless?

A

No, it was not hammerless.

 

 

Q

And you said on our direct examination that you thought this man was slightly heavier than this respondent?

A

I thought he was, yes, sir.

 

 

 

MR. TURNER:   That is all.

 

MR. COBURN:  That is all.