Page 155

Q

Just said he had been to Nunica?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Did he say when he had been to Nunica?

A

No, sir.

Q

He might have been there the day before and still be on his way home?

A

Why he certainly might for all that I know and as far as he said.  He said he was coming from Nunica.

Q

Did he tell you where he was going?

A

He said he was going over to Sullivan, that’s the way he spoke.

Q

Did he say what he was going there for?

A

No, sir.

Q

Now didn’t Shimmel ask you when you told him that Golden had been murdered if he was dead instead of saying “nothing but a dead man”?

A

No, sir, that is not the question that he asked.

Q

You are positive that he said “nothing but a dead man”?

A

“Nothing but a dead man” that is the way his expression was to me.

Q

Did he say that he knew Golden?

A

No, sir, he didn’t say anything about it.

Q

Did you ask him if he knew him?

A

No, sir.

Q

Did you tell him that you knew him?

A

No, sir.

Q

Did you know him?

A

I have heard of him, I have heard of the man and I have been to the store I think some seven or eight years ago, stopped there when I had been going across to Ravenna township.

Page 156

Q

Now you say that Mr. Shimmel has threshed at your place.  How many years ago was that?

A

He was to my place last fall I think, him and his cousins I think was along there.

Q

Was he going with the threshing machine?

A

Yes, sir, he goes with his cousins.

Q

That was the year 1905?

A

1906, last fall.

Q

1906 in the fall, that was since this murder?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Had you known him before this?

A

Oh yes, I have known him for a good many years.

Q

How many years have you known him?

A

Oh I should say probably fifteen or twenty years that I have known him.

Q

Does he look just the same now as he did fifteen or twenty years ago?

A

I cannot see much difference in him.

Q

You say you didn’t see him that day when you met him until he got within just about a rod ahead of you, was that right?

A

Yes, sir, I think that was about it.

Q

Is the road straight there?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Was he walking straight down the road?

A

He was, coming right along.

Q

If you had looked up you could have seen him before that?

A

Yes, sir, if I had been looking up I probably could have seen him before.  I don’t know that I would have noticed him but my

Page 157

A

Little boy spoke and said, “ pa there comes Will Shimmel”

Q

You might have passed him there in the road and not have seen him if your son had not spoken?

A

I might.  I lots of times do pass people.

Q

Did you see anyone else that morning?

A

Why I don’t know that I did afoot, I met teams on the road.

Q

Who did you pass with a team?

A

Yes, sir, I passed teams that morning.

Q

Who did you pass?

A

Well now I could not say as to that because I am not personally acquainted in that country you know.

Q

Did you pass anyone that you knew?

A

I don’t think I did, no, sir.

Q

How many teams did you pass?

A

Well now I wouldn’t say as to that exactly how many.

Q

Would you say you passed two?

A

I might have passed two, I don’t recollect exactly.

Q

What were they, carriages or lumber wagons?

A

Well I wouldn’t swear positively to that.

Q

Or whether there was one horse or two horses?

A

No, sir, because I never take very much notice.

Q

Where were you the day before this, April 23^rd?

A

I was to home on my place.

Q

All day?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Where were you the next day?

A

I went to Muskegon.

Q

Did you drive to Muskegon?

Page 158

A

Yes, sir.

Q

You make those trips quite often do you?

A

Well sometimes once and sometimes twice a week, I go out.

Q

You usually go on Wednesday?

A

Well no, it don’t matter any particular day, whatever day that I happen to have my work arranged so that I can go out.

Q

What day did you drive to Muskegon the week before?

A

Well I wouldn’t say as to that.

Q

The week following the week of the 23^rd what day did you go to Muskegon?

A

I went on a Wednesday.

Q

And the week following that?

A

I wouldn’t say as to that.

Q

You don’t keep track of the days that you drive to Muskegon, do you?

A

No, sir, I don’t.

Q

Just as you get a load you take it over to Muskegon?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

You say you noticed a peculiar sound in Mr. Shimmel’s speech.  Is that when he talks?

A

Why sometimes it is that way when he is a little excited or something of that kind, I never noticed it in particular.

Q

His voice is fine?

A

Well generally.

Q

When he talks you notice a whiz?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

He doesn’t make that noise only when he talks does he?

A

I don’t know but he does, I wouldn’t say for sure.

Page 159

Q

Did you ever hear him make it when he doesn’t speak?

A

Why I think I have when I have seen him lifting on something, doing something like that.

Q

When and where was that?

A

When he was working around or something like that.

Q

That was this last fall?

A

Yes, sir, and other times before.

Q

What other times?

A

Well whenever I have been with him?

Q

You would hear that noise?

A

Why yes, sir, when he would speak or talk or something like that.

Q

And when he would speak or talk you would notice that whizzing sound as you term it.

A

Yes, sir.