Page 22  ( Continued )

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. TURNER.

Q

Now Mr. Rollenhagen you came to the conclusion that that was Bill the next day, didn’t you?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

You didn’t have any conclusion about it when the man passed up the D & M track did you?

A

Why as I saw him going along there, no.

Q

You didn’t think anything about it?

A

No, sir.

Q

Where were you when you first came to that conclusion?

A

Why I was working up to Conley’s, John Conley, building a barn there for John Conley the next morning and they told me about it when we came there to work, about Golden.

Page 23

Q

They told you about Golden the next morning?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And did you talk over the matter of the killing there with those people?

A

Yes sir.

Q

Who was there talking it over with you?

A

Why Mr. Conley spoke, John Conley and Ed Brown and some of those were there along in the forenoon some time.

Q

Ed Brown that lived in Nunica?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And did he tell you before you made up your mind there that he saw Bill in the saloon?

A

I didn’t talk with him not at the time.  He was there but I didn’t speak to him.

Q

Hadn’t he told those people that he saw Bill Shimmel there in the saloon the day before?

A

Why I don’t know.

Q

Didn’t he so inform you afterwards?

A

Why yes he spoke to me about it several days after.

Q

And he told you that he saw Bill there in the saloon?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And you kind of put those facts together and you made up your mind that that was Bill that went down the track?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

Now you say he had a kind of short brown coat on?

A

Yes, sir, as near as I could tell.

Q

And a slouch hat?

A

Yes, sir.

Page 24

Q

Was he afoot?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And did he carry anything with him?

A

No, not that I noticed.

Q

How long before this had you seen Bill?

A

Why probably five or six years.

Q

And where did you see him before that the last time?

A

Why the last time I saw him I think was in Muskegon.

Q

Where was he at that time, do you remember?

A

Why I couldn’t tell just exactly at the present time?

Q

But you saw him five or six years ago and it might have been more?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And was it in the summer time or the winter time that you saw him?

A

Why it was along in the spring.  I was down with some hay.

Q

And was it warm weather?

A

Why no, not so very.

Q

On this 23^rd day of April how far were you from where he was walking along the track?

A

Why it might have been eight or nine rods, something like that, I don’t know exactly.

Q

Do you know the distance between the D & M tracks and the interurban there?

A

No, sir, I do not.

Q

How far would you judge it was?

A

Why I don’t know, I couldn’t tell exactly how far.

Q

Would you say it was forty rods?

A

Why no, it is not that far.

Page 25

Q

Does your land occupy the entire space there between the interurban and the D & M?

A

No, sir.

Q

And how much land have you?

A

Eighty acres.

Q

And how much of that is between the interurban and the D & M tracks?

A

There is about four acres, something like that.

Q

Four acres long?

A

Why it runs in a kind of a long strip.

Q

It runs to a point there does it?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

And were you working up in that point somewhere?

A

Yes, sir.

Q

How far do you think it was from you where the interurban ran?

A

Why it was just a little ways from the interurban line, from the fence.

Q

And you cannot tell about how far it was over to the D & M?

A

No, sir, I don’t know exactly the distance.

Q

Would you say it was 15 rods?

A

No, I don’t think it was that far.

Q

Well you paid no attention to this man?

A

No, sir.

Q

You have seen people walk along there I suppose?

A

Yes, sir, quite often.  They don’t bother me much.

Q

Did you have your watch on that day?

A

No, sir.

Q

How did you fix the time at about four o’clock?

Page 26

A

Why I could tell by the cars going along.  I knew the three o’clock car had gone, the 3:19 or whatever time it was due.

Q

Now you didn’t pay any particular attention to this fellow did you?

A

No, sir.

Q

And you did not look for any car to find out what time that man went by or you did not look for anything because you didn’t think anything about it?

A

No, I didn’t have no idea.

Q

You don’t know but what that was three o’clock do you?

A

It must have been later than three o’clock.

Q

I say you don’t know, you couldn’t swear to it?

A

No, not for sure.

Q

Now the only thing that you know about it is that this fellow passed up there and you afterwards had a talk with these fellows and you made up your mind it was Shimmel and he must haves gone by there about four o’clock, now isn’t that the fact of it?

A

Yes, sir.